Opened 7 years ago

Last modified 7 years ago

#3533 reopened enhancement

Include [key=value] in tooltip for presets

Reported by: kimaidou Owned by: potlatch-dev@…
Priority: minor Milestone:
Component: potlatch2 Version:
Keywords: Cc: rldhont@…

Description

There are 2 icons "swimming pool":

  • one in Amenity which gives a amenity=swimming_pool
  • on in "Leisure" which also gives amenity=swimming_pool

There is no amenity=swimming_pool in the Map features page, but a new leisure=swimming_pool which has been accepted few months ago.

I think :

  • the icon swimming pool in Amenity group must be droped
  • the icon swimming pool in Leisure must bring leisure=swimming_pool

Change History (8)

comment:1 follow-up: Changed 7 years ago by randomjunk

  • Resolution set to wontfix
  • Status changed from new to closed

There are however nearly 44k instances of people using amenity=swimming_pool, compared to 33k leisure=swimming_pool, so I think either is an acceptable tag.

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/search?q=swimming_pool#values

Please also note that Potlatch 2 categories do not have to match the tag categories, and it's perfectly acceptable for a feature to occur in more than one Potlatch 2 category with the intention of making features easy to find.

comment:2 in reply to: ↑ 1 Changed 7 years ago by BennieD

  • Keywords misleading preset tags added
  • Priority changed from major to minor
  • Resolution wontfix deleted
  • Status changed from closed to reopened
  • Summary changed from Wrong preset amenity=swimming_pool to Misleading presets

Replying to randomjunk:

There are however nearly 44k instances of people using amenity=swimming_pool, compared to 33k leisure=swimming_pool, so I think either is an acceptable tag.

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/search?q=swimming_pool#values

Please also note that Potlatch 2 categories do not have to match the tag categories, and it's perfectly acceptable for a feature to occur in more than one Potlatch 2 category with the intention of making features easy to find.

You are of course right, in that P2 developers can develop as they want.

I do however agree with kimaidou that translating swimming_pool from leisure to amenity=swimming_pool is misleading, especially if leisure=swimming_pool is the official community accepted tag, I as user expect it to translate to leisure=swimming_pool, and use it with the intention to tag leisure=swimming_pool, and thereby cast my vote for leisure. By misleading me to think that I'm casting my community vote for leisure, you win votes for your preference in an unfair method. So maybe I for one can not be surprised that leisure is used more than amenity, as it might have been intended as leisure, but translated by P2 to amenity.

As user I repeat the request, and object to closing it on the grounds presented.
Yes, it is not illegal for P2 to have the same tag in different categories, but at least 2 users would prefer that it is not done, and that accepted OSM tags is identifiable, and that other tags do not masquerade in the name of officially accepted OSM tags, for that matter no tags should masquerade as what they are not.

Maybe I'm putting this more aggressively than I intend to.

I also don't always agree with officially accepted tags. I also feel the time it takes to update the official tags to reflect the community preference is frustratingly long. I also tend to use the more widely used tags, for the same reason as you, and for the same reason that the official acceptance list exists: to try to establish some standard, to enable renderers to interpret the data. For that reason I want to know that if I choose leisure=swimming_pool, it will not translate to amenity=swimming_pool. It means that I have to inspect ALL the ready-made tags in P2, to make sure that I am tagging to what I intended. If you as P2 developer want to favour amenity=swimming_pool I believe you are entitled to do it - on the grounds that it is more widely used. But then put it in the amenity category, and leave it out of the leisure category:)

There are more tags that loose integrity in this way:
natural=wood vs landuse=forest: I live in a forestry area:- the distinction between natural forest/wood and forestry plantation is critical. In P2 readymade tag natural=forest translate to landuse=forest, which is used to indicate man-made/-maintained forest plantation, while natural=wood is used for natural forest/jungle/forest - not because it is the best, but because it is in the OSM features list, where the common user goes when in doubt. [the P1 user had a function to search for tags;)]

I now understand that I cannot use the ready-made tags in P2, but before I realised that, I did a lot of mapping incorrectly, and P2 cost me a lot of time to go back and fix it all, and I'm not sure if I did fix them all.

I object to misleading tags.

All the same - thanks for the hard work. I know P2 is still in development, but it promises to be fabulous.

comment:3 Changed 7 years ago by Richard

  • Resolution set to wontfix
  • Status changed from reopened to closed

If you are concerned with the actual tags used, you should use the Advanced view, or JOSM.

The Simple view is for users who just want to label a swimming pool, and may not even understand that there are key/value pairs under the hood. It is for people who aren't concerned with the nitty-gritty of tagging.

Most English-speaking people would class a swimming pool as a "leisure" facility. Therefore it's included in Potlatch 2 under a "leisure" grouping. Whether this maps to "amenity=swimming_pool" or "leisure=swimming_pool" or "spong=yeswiblet" is irrelevant.

By the same token, we have "road" and "path" groupings, rather than "highway".

comment:4 Changed 7 years ago by rldhont@…

  • Cc rldhont@… added
  • Resolution wontfix deleted
  • Status changed from closed to reopened

Potlatch 2 is a good way to start with OpenStreetMap without understanding about tagging. But because it's easy to tag with Potlatch 2, I think the version on openstreetmap.org must use the officials tags.

I do not question the calssification proposed by Potlatch 2, but the fact that Potlatch 2 does not follow the community decisions.

I know that it's easy to change this to be more conform with the community decisions, why not accept this ticket ?

comment:5 Changed 7 years ago by Richard

  • Resolution set to wontfix
  • Status changed from reopened to closed

Firstly, whipping up a lynch mob on talk-fr is not the right way to have a sensible debate. Whether or not you want to comment further, do not reopen this ticket.

The reason Dave has explained above for using amenity=swimming_pool rather than leisure=swimming_pool is that the "community decision" is for "amenity=swimming_pool". There are 11,000 more people using it. That sounds like a community decision to me.

15 people's votes on the wiki would not override that. But, as it happens, the situation regarding *=swimming_pool on the wiki is exceptionally confused. Even the formal vote (not that it's worth anything) for leisure=swimming_pool resulted in opposed. amenity=swimming_pool is properly documented and it is only "proposed" there that the leisure tag be used instead. Basically, it's a mess. Someone appears to have taken it on themselves to add leisure=swimming_pool to Map Features anyway, which is fine, but one person editing a page doesn't mandate us to follow them - especially when amenity=swimming_pool is still more heavily used in the database.

Development work is underway to allow the user to load a preset file of their choosing. This will allow them, for example, to load a "wiki presets only" file or indeed any other file. As you have pointed out on talk-fr, you can already deploy your own instance with your own tags.

comment:6 Changed 7 years ago by kimaidou

Hi Richard. First I want to apologize if my post on osm-talk/fr sounds as "whipping up a lynch mob on talk-fr". It is clearly not the case. If the title is a little bit too much, when your read my message, you see that I clearly diagree with closing this ticket, but I do not ask for lynch, but explain my opinion and ask for help. In this message, I tried to say "this is what I personnaly think", not "the dev is a noob", with moderation.

Now, I quite agree there is a pbm in "deciding" what is the "right" way of tagging. Sometimes the wiki is well documented and the result of a conciliation, sometimes only one person decided to change some tag. So you are right : the wiki is not gold.

Let me make a proposal (while not reopen this ticket) : I think you have a great opportunity to help novices (and more advanced users) to learn what is underneath OSM = the tag. Why not add a small popup on hover for the presest to tell the user what tags will be used ? This way we will know what p2 is doing, and it won't lead to misunderstanding.

Sorry if I misunderstand your arguments, but I am just not confortable with this kind of sentence in opensource community : "If you are concerned with the actual tags used, you should use the Advanced view, or JOSM." . It is a bit rough.

comment:7 Changed 7 years ago by Richard

  • Keywords misleading preset tags removed
  • Resolution wontfix deleted
  • Status changed from closed to reopened
  • Summary changed from Misleading presets to Include [key=value] in tooltip for presets
  • Type changed from defect to enhancement

That's a great idea. Retitled ticket accordingly.

comment:8 Changed 7 years ago by kimaidou

thanks for this. And no offense, you're doing a great job with p2

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